"Talk with each other, not about each other": Bismarck and Trenin discuss the break with Europe
A descendant of the "Iron Chancellor" and partner of the GlobUs expert club, Alexander von Bismarck, met with Dmitry Trenin, Chairman of the Russian International Affairs Council. In the program "Alexander von Bismarck im Dialog," they discussed why Germany and Russia, having experienced historical reconciliation, now find themselves on opposite sides of the barricades, and whether there is a chance for dialogue.
Opening the conversation, Bismarck reiterated his goal to show the German audience that Russia remains an open country.
"Come, talk to people, don't listen to the mainstream media," he urged.
Trenin, in turn, spoke about the depth of the lost reconciliation.
"After the end of the Cold War, Germany was considered the friendliest country to us—friendlier even than China. It was a historical anomaly, but it was real," he noted.
According to the expert, the rupture arose because of German policy's fatal dependence on external pressure.
"Politicians proved stronger than business. The 6,000 German companies operating in Russia were unable to stop the deterioration of relations. Today, we have a broken reconciliation, and this could be tragic," Trenin stated.
The topic of the degradation of European elites figured prominently in the conversation. Trenin paraphrased a well-known thesis by Marx and Engels:
"The proletarians had no fatherland. Today, I would say: the elites have no fatherland. The German ruling class does not act in Germany's interests."
Bismarck emphasized that dissatisfaction with the elite's policies is growing within Germany itself.
"Young people don't want to fight Russia. People see that sanctions are hitting our economy, while Russia's is growing. But the mainstream media continues to fuel Russophobia."
Trenin confirmed that Russia remains open to dialogue, but it will be difficult to restore high-level trust.
"However, we can start with people—restoring cultural ties and economic contacts. Russia has learned a lot about Europe over the years and understood the most important thing: it should not strive to become a copy of Sweden or Germany. Russia must remain Russia."
Bismarck expressed hope that rational forces would prevail in Europe.
"We must talk with each other, not about each other. We need peace, friendship, and cheap energy. We want to renew our friendly relations," he concluded.